Note N519 Index
Here is what Sue Savidge says about John: John was Edward and Anne's Eldest child. His father died in 1840 along with his father (John's grandfather) in an epidemic. He was brought up by Edward's brother, William.
In the census of 1861, John Timms is listed as farming 80 acres at Whichford, Warwickshire, employing 3 labourers and 2 boys. In the same census, William Timms of Cherington is a farmer of 414 acres and employer of 11 labourers and 7 boys. (see D8827/2/1 below)
However, by 1871 John had moved to 330 acres at Evenlode. The 1861 and 1871 census records show that many of the workers named in the farm accounts lived in the villages of Batsford, Bourton-on-the-Hill and Sezincote.
The baptisms of John and his brother Edwin are in the parish registers. John was baptised April 3, 1831, which seems later than normal. There is no doubt some explanation. Those of the two younger children are not. All of the children are in the will of their grand mother, Elizabeth Timms.
I am making a guess re his wife's last name and their marriage. There is a John Timms who married an Elizabeth Watkins on December 30, 1852, by banns. He was a 22 year old bachelor, son of Edward Timms, farmer, deceased. She was a 23 year old spinster, daughter of William Watkins, farmer. The witnesses were William Timms and Sarah Timms.
There is a John Timms, born in 1831 who appears in the 1861 census for Whichford. His wife is Elizabeth. He has 82 acres, 3 labourers and 2 boys. His children are William (5), Francis (2) and Edward (1). This may well be he. Oddly though, I cannot find him in the 1851 census. But that would be consistent with a 1852 marriage. There are children born to a John Timms and Elizabeth in Whichford starting in 1853 and they do match. I need to have Cath Black update baptisms etc for the 1800's.
He does not appear in the 1851 census census but I talking about the Bevington version which is hardly complete. Unless he is the nephew John Timms living with his uncle William Timms in Cherington. He is of the right age and place of birth.
He is in Evenlode in 1871:
TIMMS John 40 Farmer 330 ac Stourton
Elizabeth 41 Ascott Warks
William 15 Whichfield
SLATTER Elizabeth Cousin 24 Annuitant Whichfield
BASSON Harry Nephew 6 Shipston on Stour
JONES Emma Serv 14 Gen Serv Whichford
Who is his cousin Elzabeth Slatter? I wonder why his nephew Harry Basson, the son of his sister Elzabeth was living with them? The will of this John Timms dated October 28, 1903 gives some clues. In that will, John apponts his wife Elizabeth and his son Edward to be his executors. He leaves everything to his wife for the duration of her life, except for 100 pounds which is an immediate gift to Edward. After Elizabeth's death, the three living sons, Edward, William and Francis share equally. The witnesses were Elizabeth A. Basson and Elizabeth Slatter.
There is a John Timms, born December 25, 1830 who died December 6, 1903 in the MI's for Whichford. His wife was Elizabeth born November 25, 1829 and died April 1, 1915 - wow The child Francis is right below listed as dying April 25, 1909 at age 50. All that adds up with the 1861 and 1881 censuses.
In the 1881 census, he is there with Elizabeth, William (25), Francis (22) and Edward 21. They were all from Whichford. The census place was Blockley, Worcester. This is the parish in which Dorn was located. There was a Sarah Slatter, 34, who was visiting. John was not there in 1871.
The family is still there in 1891. By then, only John, Elizabeth and Edward were there. There was also an Elizabeth Slatter, an annuitant, from Whichford. She was 44 years old. I am wondering if that was his younger sister Elizabeth who married a Slatter.
John was still there in 1901. Elizabeth was still alive and Edward was also still there. Elizabeth Slatter, 54 was still there. There was also an Ernest Basson, nephew, pupil, from Stourton living there. Was he a grandnephew?
For the moment, I am going to put him in according to the above.
Oddly enough there was also a William Timms and his wife Margaret in the 1901 census for Dorn. Who was he? Based on where he is said to be from, I do not belive he is mine.
Note N520 Index
The baptisms of Edwin and his brother John are in the parish registers. Those of the two younger children are not. All of the children are in the will of their grand mother, Elizabeth Timms.
He is described as a butcher at the time of his marriage. In the 1851 census, he is a butcher's apprentice in Stratford on Avon, with the family of John Talbot, butcher.. His mother was a grocer living in Cherington in the same census, with only Elizabeth, the youngest child. living with her.
In December 2012, I gained information from Kevin Jones, who is a descendant of Edwin through his daughter Anne (Annie) Elizabeth Timms. He has given me the following information:
Edwin Timms enlisted in the 11th Hussars (Prince Albert's Own) Light Dragoons Cavalry Regiment as Private No 548 on 6 July 1860. According to his military records, he was a butcher by trade prior to enlistment. He was 5 feet 7¼ inches tall with a sallow complexion, grey eyes and brown hair. Edwin served for 18 years and 58 days, of which 11 years and 5 months were spent in India. One of his first overseas postngs was to Ireland, and in those days some of the lower ranks were allowed to bring their immdiate family with them. His wife Charlotte (nee Rainbow) and first daughter Annie Eliza accompanied him and his second daughter Caroline Elizabeth was born at the Garrison Church in Dublin in 1863. He discharged on 2 October 1878, at his own request, with a modified pension (as he had not served the full 21 years). Upon discharge Edwin was listed as 41 years and 4 months old, although he was actually 44. Edwin’s character and conduct were classed as Very Good and he was in possession of four Good Conduct Badges. I see from the discharge papers that Edwin was also cited four times in the Regimental Default Records, including have been tried once by Court Martial.
In 1861, his wife Charlotte and the daughter Anne were living alone in Sutton under Brailes. That says that Anne was born in Cherington. That is confirmed by her birth certificate.